Daily Driver battle: E46 330 vs Acura TL

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 07/22/2018 at 17:36 • Filed to: None

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Endlessly shopping dailies, I’m currently on the fence between the constant V6 6 speed Acura TL 3rd-gen. $4000-7000 for one with 90-150k miles in reasonable shape. But then something else has come to my attention: E46 330s aren’t all that unreliable. $600 buys a kit to replace the faulty cooling system components and then you have a perfectly reliable sports coupe until the $500 alternator shits the bed.

BMW Pros:

RWD

Ultimate Driving Machine

Looks phenomenal, aged super well

Straight 6 smoothness

Badge snobbery

Better fuel economy according to EPA numbers (??!?!?)

Available as a coupe

Well-built turgid German turn signals

BMW Cons:

Potentially more expensive repairs due to parts costs.

Insurance?

Acura Pros:

Looks phenomenal

Honda reliability

Not pretentious/flies under the radar

Acura Cons:

Sedan only

FWD

Not as flashy

Would not be as fun on twisties/autox

I’m considering replacing the Miata with one of these to have a larger, safer, more practical daily. To that end I lean towards the E46 because it would be a better “fun car” that can also do road trips and seat multiple people.

Curious on your thoughts. I’ve spoken to owners of both cars and most of the Acura owners would give up their cars for an E46 330 and all the 330 owners I’ve talked to have had better luck with reliability than I have with my Miata.

diplodicus forgot his password > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 17:51

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E46. They didn't get a liquid cooled alternator like the e39. Bosch rebuilts are 280 but I bet O'Reilly's has one that's like 100$ cheaper.

WilliamsSW > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 17:51

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I don’t know much about the Acura, but can confirm that gas mileage is lousy with those things.

On the BMW, if previous owners took good care of it, it’ll probably be relatively reliable. If not, it will not be. Look for maintenance records, and if they don’t have them, run. Hell of a fun car though - I have an E46 convertible myself, but with a completely different engine.

Oh, and you should also inspect the shock towers (all around) and rear subframe - can be an issue with these cars.

Amoore100 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 17:53

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No 330 but jeez , these wagons look so right .

Idk man, I’m useless beyond knowing that early VCM J-series Honda engines enjoy consuming oil (which no third-gen TL has, so also unimportant).

¯\_()_/¯

interstate366, now In The Industry > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 17:55

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I wouldn’t give up my TL for a BMW in a million years. But mine is a different generation.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 17:56

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E46 with maintenance records. The TL is great for a FWD midsize sedan whereas the E46 is great full-stop. I was cross-shopping these and the  G35 when I was in the market last year and insurance quotes were a wash between the E46 and TL.

E90M3 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 18:03

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If you’re worried about a $500 repair, stay away from the BMW. 

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 18:13

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If it’s been meticulously cared for, go for the 330. It’s smiles for miles.

If not, then the Acura is definitely the preferred choice.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > WilliamsSW 07/22/2018 at 18:33

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I don't think maintenence records are really much of a thing in the price range I'm shopping

WilliamsSW > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 18:49

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If you’re in the 4- 7k range, records won’t be common, but there are cars out there with at least the last few years worth. Hell if I was selling mine it would be at or below that price with records back to day 1.

I’d really stay away from any German without some history. They’re great if maintained, terrible if not. You need to know which you’re looking at. 

12and35 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 18:53

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Having owned a TL and currently own a 330...believe me the maintenance is different. My 330 has been in the shop for a week getting the starter replaced because it crapped out on me.... It’s not a cheap fix... American Express is going to love me.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 12and35 07/22/2018 at 19:53

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Not cheap because expensive part or is the starter a bitch to get to?

12and35 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 20:33

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It’s a six hour job in labor at 100ish dollars an hour plus a nearest makes no difference 400 dollar part.

12and35 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 20:38

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Oh and an oil change at a shop or stealership is going to be 100+

functionoverfashion > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 22:26

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E46!! And as others have said, get some maintenance records. It doesn’t have to be complete, but you will be hosed if you get one that’s been neglected. I’ve had two over the last 9 years, the first one was right at the point where a lot of stuff started to wear out. Mind you, it never left me stranded and I wouldn’t call it unreliable. Just... not low maintenance either. I also drove the f-ing wheels off it, so, that’s related.

The next one was better maintained, and the previous owner got hit with a lot - I could see the cooling system and a few other problem areas had been addressed, like rear springs and crankcase ventilation system; and they only owned the car for about a year. That was an expensive year for them, and probably why they sold the car. They would have a different view of the car than I have had - it had 120k when I got it and now has 170 and it’s been perfect; brakes, a front axle, oil changes, that’s it. 

If you can DIY, you can also save a LOT. They are not hard to work on if you have a space to do it. Just about every possible thing has been documented.

And my 325xi wagon is pretty different from a 330 coupe, but man, it’s still really nice to drive and pretty fun for a 3,600lb wagon with 184hp and 170,000 miles. 

functionoverfashion > 12and35 07/22/2018 at 22:28

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Starter does suck on these. Not impossible if you have a helper, but yeah, I dread the day. I sold my last E46 with 202k and I probably dodged the bullet with that one.

Otherwise, if you can DIY most jobs aren’t hard with these cars. I just do my homework and dive in. 

Kristosh > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 22:33

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We bantered a bit on your last thread on the TL 6 speed. It’s a funny scenario because I dream of the e46 330! You have a hard decision to make, the only advice I can offer is clarification.

The TL is actually pretty fuel efficient due to the FWD layout. I average 22 mpg, but of course it matters how you drive. I’d say I’m half and half. Blasts to 60 mph, then cruise on a local road.

All city stop lights gets me high teens, hwy /interstate gets 27.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/22/2018 at 23:12

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I would love a nice 330i, but honestly, I almost never see nice ones on Craigslist and when I do, people want quite a bit for them. So I’m going to throw out the 128i as an alternative.  I’ve heard good things about their reliability and I think the driving dynamics should be close and I tend to see nicer examples for sale.

dogisbadob > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 00:23

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There’s the Accord coupe V6, which is basically a 2-door TL

JakeZ88 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 02:24

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Bmw has the best handling in its class , there is no other car that has that tight yet “ I own this road” feel ... if maintained properly . The Acura   delivers in reliability , Looks , performance ... however it’s not as fun as the bmw . I honestly don’t know how bmw makes that car drive so well ??? Again if ( maintained) Bottom line if you’re on a budget the tl is your best option , if you find a decent E46 and willingly < (keyWord) ( No Regrets ) investing in it then go Bavarian . 

Los > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 06:06

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If you want a reliable daily driver go with the TL. I have a 2004 6 speed my Acura TL and this thing as far a reliability has been incredible, about to hit 300k and nothing major has ever happened other than CV joints, other than that motor still runs smooth. 330 might be more fun, but reliability is a big question on those.

Doug, Greater Indianapolis, USA > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 07:10

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Depends upon what your ultimate goal is. You’ve done a good job identifying strengths and weaknesses; now it’s just a matter of fun/flash vs. reliability/cost of maintenance  ; you just can beat Honda reliability. 

Jorge Castro > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 07:39

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I have this one trust me, its the best car ever made ! 

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > dogisbadob 07/23/2018 at 08:32

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Accord V6 6MTs are stupid rare. Way harder to find than a manual TL and rarely do they have the equivalent options. When I have found them they’re $8k+ compared to $4500 for an equivalent TL.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 12and35 07/23/2018 at 08:33

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So the moral of the story here is fuck dealerships fix it yourself.

copy_run_start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 09:34

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I own an ‘04 TL (see profile pic), and I absolutely love it. Can’t speak to maintenance or ownership experience for a 330i, but I meticulously care for my TL and reliability is pretty good. Things are generally accessible and easy to work on if you do it yourself, and the parts aren’t crazy expensive. In the four years I’ve owned my TL, I’ve spent about $1,500-$2,000 in repairs (having the cv axles done at a shop):

- Window regulator at 70k miles
- Bluetooth module (common problem) at 80k
- Headlights sanded/clearcoated at 80k (yellow/oxidation)
- CV axles at 85k
- PS pump at 85k
- Rear brake calipers at 90k
- Headlight igniter at 95k
- Rear view mirror at 100k (auto-dimming failure)

And there are some trim issues with the car, so be prepared to either fix them at some point or try to prevent them from happening:

- Dashboards crack often in these cars, and I’m not sure there’s much you can do about it. I treated mine with 303 UV protectant and it still cracked after 3 years.
- Leather seats are prone to tearing. I treat mine with leather cleaner/conditioner, and they haven’t torn yet.

Yeah, it would be better if the car were RWD. And the thing feels like it has a large turn radius for the size of it, so that can be annoying. But for what you’ll likely pay, you really get a great car. It has plenty of power, and the V6 is very responsive. It looks great, even for how old it is. Apart from the low speed turn radius, it handles well and can be a lot of fun to drive. The interior materials feel premium, and the overall design inside is also a plus, with clean lines and a modern look, even without the nav. Everyone who rides in it thinks it’s newer than it is.

Lastly, there is a pretty big community with lots of threads at Acurazine, as well as other forums, where there are tons of DIY walkthroughs, mod advice, pics, Q&A, etc. etc., so that’s a big plus.

adamftw > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 10:06

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They’re all over NY. The V6 6MT sedans are the rare ones.

jasmits > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 10:40

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You might be surprised, even the most perfectly maintained non-M3 E46 won’t be worth much if anything past 10k, and being luxury cars it’s pretty believable that some one or two owner cars have been maintained at the dealership or a reputable shop their whole life. When I bought an E36 a few years ago the guy I bought it from didn’t have many records handy but it’d been maintained at the big local BMW dealer for most of its life, and a good indie mechanic for the later few years. All the guy had to do was give them a quick phone call and they were happy to print literally all the records going back 10+ years for us.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > copy_run_start 07/23/2018 at 10:41

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I’m very aware of the dash pad issues. The seats are a minus but I care very little because broken torn leather is just an excuse to get some Clazzio aftermarket upholstery ($600 for the style I want, can install myself) and seriously class up the interior. As for exhaust a local guy has an auto TL with a muffler delete and some sort of aftermarket resonator and it sounds the absolute business.

wafflesnfalafel > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 11:40

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I really like both.  I worked with a guy who had a 330 and a prior boss had a 330ci and another boss of mine had a 3rd gen TL.  The 330 sedan is top five “handles like I think a car should handle” - supple but heavily shocked, tight, accurate but still comfortable and not crashy.  But The TL is beautiful and you can put 200,000 on it if you treat the manual transmission well.

Kristosh > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 13:04

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The REAL trouble with the Accord V6, 6 Speed is you give up so much in tech and drivetrain to the TL :

- Less power

- Halogen headlights vs. the TL’s fantastic HID’s

- Limited slip Diff (CANNOT emphasize how important this is when you’re sending 270hp to the front wheels)

- Brembo brakes

- Better stereo

- I don’t think anyone can deny that the TL design has aged better

- Misc interior tech : Memory seats, auto-dim rear mirror, DVD-Audio, Aluminum accent trim, perforated leather seats, rear air conditioning vents

Kristosh > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 13:16

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Another thought : In my area, 6 Speed TL’s are closer to the $4k end of the scale while 330i’s are closer to the $7k for same mileage.

And I really only consider the ZHP package to be the TL’s equivalent because that’s what gets you the extra power, sportier suspension, thicker sway bars, etc. The 0-60 and 1/4 times are about even between TL and 330i ZHP, but a standard 330i is a little down from the TL in a straight line.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Kristosh 07/23/2018 at 13:43

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+1 to all of this

Stupidru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 20:06

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I’ll chime in. I own an 04 TL 6MT and an E36 328is. My TL and I were inseparable until this past March when i bought my E36. The TL has 175k on it at the moment and since I bought it at 110k has been stone cold reliable. I had 1 CV axle literally twist apart, and the A/C compressor went out, but aside from that it’s been phenomenal.

I just bought a 170k E36 in March to be my summer driver. As soon as I got it home it has been parked while I did preventative maintenance to the cooling system. $600 later and I had a great all-arounder. Man, can that thing scoot!

While I’ve been driving the Bimmer I had my TL on the Quickjack while I replaced the entire front end (shocks, bushings, wheel bearings, ball joints) as preventative maintenance as I plan to pass it down to my son who is 2.5 years old, as soon as he can drive. I just started driving the TL again since I finished all of the work, and the two cars cannot be any more different. The TL is a comfy cruiser but feels so numb. That being said, everything just works without issue. The Bimmer is the more fun of the two, and has been relegated to whenever I want to hoon.

Insurance is about the same on both, gas mileage is a little better on the TL and I even use midgrade gas without any ill effect. 25mpg all day long on the Bimmer, between flogging it and the rest of my country road commuting.

So what would I do if I were you? Depends where you’re at in life. If you’ve got the cash, get the Bimmer. If you just want to cruise and rack up a lot of uneventful miles and not worry about anything ever breaking? Get the TL. What do I want? To trade my E36 coupe  for a ZHP 330i sedan. Mostly because our 2nd child is on the way and I enjoy being pain-free

Spanfeller is a twat > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/23/2018 at 20:20

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Get an E46.

Such a nice car